03
05/07
7:27 pm
When techno-weenies make lame technology choices
Notice: I’m not writing this to piss off anyone. So put your fists down for a minute and read the entire post ;)
Today, I was surfing around and landed on an interesting video created by the guys at Standout Jobs. Their video describes the project they have in mind, which is a solution to todays horrible hiring process. They also used the video to mention their need for a Ruby Guru. Below are the requirements:
- True entrepreneurial spirit and drive
- Ruby Guru
- Previous startup experience
- Experience shipping 1.0 products
- Blogger, social monkey
- Love designing and architecting systems from scratch
- A
minimumminimal level of creativity
Now after analyzing all this, I realized something important. They made 2 mistakes:
- Choosing Ruby as their development language
- Thinking they can find a ruby guru with all the above requirements
I know this is going to start yet another flame war, but hear me out first.
1.
I don’t think Ruby is a poor choice. I think Ruby is absolutely awesome. On the other hand, these guys are NOT Ruby Guru’s… so why would THEY choose Ruby? Wouldn’t it make more sense to let their “entrepreneur/guru” make the technology choice for them? This just reminds me of the corporate IT Manager who chooses Java because their competitors use it.
2.
If they want to find a Ruby Guru with entrepreneurial spirit, experience, technical AND social skills, they will be searching for a long time. I do think those types of people exist, since I am the living proof of it ;) but I also know that this kind of person is most likely NOT looking for a JOB. So why ask someone to apply for a job as a Ruby Guru when you’re really just looking for a Technology Guru to help LEAD the team of ruby gurus?
Ultimately, their message came off as somewhat incongruent. The title and description don’t fit together, and I would love to hear what Ben, Fred and Austin have to say about this.
Remember guys, I’m not attacking you personally. I think the idea is good, but just needs some tweaking.
heri
May 3, 2007
8:13 pm
hi
Actually, Fred Ngo has a lot of experience so i trust him on this. possible answers:
- Ruby/RoR leads to faster development time, so it appears one of the only possible solutions if you have a tight schedule.
- Ruby/RoR allows you to separate your code from your presentation
- Ruby/RoR allows you to evolve your website features faster than you could with java or php
- the most talented programmers have left php for Ruby/RoR.
of course I am biaised because my tool of the trade is ruby.
you might be right though about the approach – ruby programmers are pretty rare in montreal.
Barry Hess
May 3, 2007
9:32 pm
“A minimum level of creativity”
Every time I look at that I want to read “A _minimal_ level of creativity.” That _really_ doesn’t make sense. :)
Alex
May 3, 2007
9:35 pm
heh… it’s cause i’m french ;)
Alex
May 3, 2007
11:20 pm
Hi Heri,
Those are very good reasons to choose Ruby over PHP. Unfortunately that’s not what i’m trying to discuss.
It’s not the technology that I question.
Had they chosen Python, PHP or Lisp, I would have had the same arguments.
If Paul Graham announces that he’s searching for a Lisp Guru with the above requirements, it would make complete sense.
I’m convinced there are some pretty proficient Ruby programmers in Montreal. That shouldn’t be difficult to find. From what I understood, after viewing the video a dozen times, they are not looking for just a “guru programmer”.
I’ll let them clarify. I could also be totally wrong ;)
Ben Yoskovitz
May 4, 2007
5:19 am
Ruby is so cool, isn’t that reason enough? *grin*
I think Heri’s thoughts on the technology make sense. And you did question in your post, “why did they choose Ruby?” So I think Heri answered that question specifically…
Another reason to choose Ruby (or any technology) is that a choice makes it easier to hone in on people. Had we not made a choice, and the video was for a “Tech Guru” we would have had too generic and loose a job ad / job description.
I think the bigger issue is – “they’ll be looking a long time.” Maybe, maybe not. And if we are looking a long time, so be it.
Most of the best people aren’t looking for jobs specifically. They’re passive candidates. People should always be keeping their ear to the ground, and their eyes open. Since we know the type of person we want does exist, it’s then our job to find them, connect with them and make them an offer they can’t refuse.
We need someone who is more than a coder. There are many reasons for that. We’re building a core team around this person, with a team culture and future that will depend heavily on them. Fred and I already have a sense of the culture we want to develop, and some of our beliefs are also tied into what we’re looking for.
And who says we’re looking just in Montreal? *smile*
Alex
May 4, 2007
10:46 am
Thanks Ben, for taking the time to reply.
I find it kind of ironic that a company looking to build software to simplify the hiring process, could possibly have difficulty hiring. Haha! Peut-etre je m’y prends trop d’avance… you guys just posted this yesterday ;)
Ok all jokes aside, your offer seems rather interesting, minus the Ruby. I think if I weren’t so biased I might have applied… maybe that’s why I wrote this post ;)
Either way, you clearly stated that you’re open to discussion, so if that’s the case, then your future Ruby Guru should help in making difficult technological choices.
That’s just my opinion though.
Ben Yoskovitz
May 5, 2007
9:52 pm
Alex,
It’s not ironic at all. If the tools we plan to build already existed, we wouldn’t have problems. *grin*
And don’t think of it as a problem, think of it as an opportunity…
I know if we put a job posting on Monster or Jobboom we’d get hundreds of resumes, but so what? That’s not how you find real talent.
I’m not sure what your personal beef is with Ruby, or if you just don’t like that we picked it without consulting you *smile* … but …
We picked Ruby (and Rails) for specific reasons. Fred’s no slouch when it comes to understanding technology and the issues surrounding it. Neither am I (or Austin.) So we didn’t pick Ruby for the heck of it or because it’s the “flavor of the month.”
Everyone we hire, particularly at this early stage, will have a say in key issues – be they technology, marketing, sales, product roadmap, etc. That’s the kind of company we’re building. But decisions have to be made, and they have to be made at the right times to move the ball forward, especially for a startup trying to build well + quickly.
Thank you for your continued thoughts…
Alex
May 7, 2007
10:07 pm
Ben, your comment has led me to much reflection.
The truth is, I have absolutely nothing against Ruby. I think you made some very strong arguments to confirm your decision and I respect that.
I think this is also a sign for me to break out of my PHP bubble. In one of my Top Posts, I mentioned that I would continue to learn Ruby, which I didn’t. This is unfortunate as I now realize the real importance of learning and staying ahead of the curve.
Good luck Ben! I hope you find a suitable person for your startup.
Ben Yoskovitz
May 22, 2007
9:13 pm
Thanks Alex, and best of luck learning Ruby. I can tell you from a “market feel” that Ruby is certainly in big demand and contractors/freelancers such as yourself are finding ample (and well-paying) work doing Ruby development. I’d say it’s a good feather to have in your programmer cap.
terry chay
May 29, 2007
3:22 pm
- Ruby/RoR allows you to separate your code from your presentation
So does any framework. So does any templating system. Oh, you mean, “forces you� Then what about Clearsilver?
- Ruby/RoR allows you to evolve your website features faster than you could with java or php
Bullshit. RoR allows you to build your website from scratch faster than nearly anything. Practice has shown that it is very bad at evolving or scaling websites which is why 37signals and others build more websites instead of improving the ones they got. RoR is pretty much the worst platform for evolving website features.
Just look at ActiveRecord. One consequence is that the class library is tightly bound to the table. What if I want to change the table? Oh, Migrations, you say? Yes, that’s fine for small changes like what happens when a new version of Wordpress comes out, but on a federated system with a staged release, it’s laughable.
- the most talented programmers have left php for Ruby/RoR.
I’d like to see some names attached to this statement. If you’re so talented as a X language developer, you don’t need to leave for Ruby or any other language. You learn other languages to get ideas.
The reality is Ruby on Rails is very popular in terms of book sales, but at the point PHP had Ruby’s book sales, it had the largest market share of any web development platform. The book sales come from the clever tie in as “Ruby is the language for Web 2.0†which causes Web 2.0 startups to think they need to use Ruby. But the dominant platform among successful Web 2.0 startups is PHP (by far, its probably over 50% of the top 1000 web 2.0 companies). There is only one Web 2.0 RoR app that has reached that benchmark of success, Twitter. When Ruby competed head to head with a competitive Web 2.0 space, it got its ass kicked in, badly.